Interview by Barry Hanley
As UFC fans we all remember those first VHS tapes of the exploits of Royce Gracie against bigger and more formidable opponents. He strode to the octagon, his crisp white gi wrapped around a slight unassuming frame. Few thought he had a chance against some of the bruisers awaiting him in the cage. The wide eyed Brazilian looked more like an accountant than a fighting man. We all thought he’d get annihilated. Then he’d turn these musclebound behemoths into pretzels. Our collective jaws dropped. What was this Brazilian jiu-jitsu? One of the first Americans to take the martial art seriously was a big bear of a man called John Milius. Milius was a renowned screenwriter and director in Hollywood known for his muscular prose and gun toting anarchy. He was a self proclaimed ‘zen anarchist.’ Milius was a contemporary of Steven Spielberg and Francis Ford Coppola and became the leader of the budding Hollywood brain trust. Spielberg was clear about Milius’ stature in the group that would come to dominate Hollywood, “John is our scoutmaster. He’s the one who will tell you to go on a trip and only take enough food and enough water for one day and make you stay longer than that. He’s the one who says, ‘Be a man. I don’t want to see any tears.’ He’s a terrific raconteur, a wonderful story-teller. John has more life than the rest of us put together.”
As fate would have it he had a chance encounter with Rorion Gracie. Reb Brown, one of the actors on Milius’ surfing epic “Big Wednesday” had taken a few classes with Gracie and was raving about this new martial art to his director. Royce’s thin and wiry Brazilian brother had no intentions of staying in the US but was robbed and became homeless. His sole source of income was training Americans in the then mysterious combat science of Gracie jiu-jitsu. When Milius visited the basement of Gracie’s modest apartment he witnessed Rorion humiliating men twice his size he instantly fell in love with the sport. The Hollywood heavyweight’s love for it led him to bring many of his friends and contemporaries to take classes too. Amongst them was Ed O’Neil. The burly former football player was treated to a lesson on leverage by Gracie and became an instant fan.
Milius knew he was on to something and his fertile mind began thinking of a tournament that the whole world could enjoy. The man who penned the line “terminate with extreme prejudice” realized instantly that this grappling art would transform fighting forever and the fans just had to witness its effectiveness for themselves. He envisioned a cage where the fighters could not escape. They had to fight. Art Davie and a group of investors brought Milius onboard as the UFC’s first ‘creative director.’ His creativity was inspired by the fighting pit he had Schwarzenegger fight in in the movie he directed “Conan the Barbarian.” A moat with bears, alligators and lions was mentioned, even sharks. Eventually the octagon was agreed upon.
Few imagined the phenomenon that the UFC would become and fewer could have scripted the involvement of John Milius. The colorful character who “The Big Lebowski”‘s Walter Sobchack was based on. The gun toting anarchist who sat on the board of the directors of the NRA for 6 years. The man who penned some of the most iconic lines in movie history. Were it not for Reb Brown’s chance introduction to Rorion Gracie perhaps we would not have the fastest growing sport on earth today.
John Milius suffered a stroke a few years ago and still struggles with his speech. He was gracious enough to grant an interview with me largely due to the assistance of his daughter Amanda and son Ethan (a BJJ brown belt and former Rorion Gracie student himself). Milius answered some of these questions himself and others with the assistance of his two children.
Barry Hanley: First off, thanks Mr. Milius for taking the time to answer these questions. I sincerely hope you are in good spirits and on the road to full recovery. How did you meet Rorion Gracie?
Ethan Milius: Reb Brown, who played the enforcer in “Big Wednesday,” introduced Dad to Rorion. Reb had been training with the Gracies.”
BH: What were your initial impressions of the slight Brazilian?
John Milius: A real character, a champion. Handsome. James Bond.
BH: Were you skeptical about the efficacy of BJJ at the outset?
JM: No, not at all.
BH: How many sessions of BJJ did you have before it ‘clicked’ for you?
JM: Clicked very quickly for me. In the first year.
BH: Did you envision BJJ becoming as huge as it is today?
EM: Yes. He spoke at length about it eventually becoming generally popular. I don’t remember if he or I said that we expected it to be like karate was with a dojo on every corner.
JM: Yes, definitely thought it would catch on.
BH: Would you rather be shooting guns, surfing, or rolling on a mat with a crafty Brazilian?
JM: Since the stroke, shooting only. I have a problem with my right arm.
BH: I also attempted to join the Marines Corp in ’97 but was refused because, as an Irish immigrant I had no greencard. Do you still have regrets about not joining the Corps?
JM: Oh yes, asthma kept me out. My idol was Teddy Roosevelt. He had asthma too.
BH: Do you think America is growing soft?
JM: Yes.
BH: What do you think of the movies Hollywood is making today?
JM: Terrible. No heart.
BH: Do you think going against the ‘liberal elite’ hurt your career?
JM: Yes, I paid for it with my career.
BH: There is still much controversy and debate over who came up with the Octagon used in the UFC to this day. What was your role in its inception?
EM: My understanding was that Dad came up with the Octagon. I believe that Art Davie in his book denies this. But I think that Dad based it on the fighting pit in “Conan the Barbarian.” The pit in Conan was surrounded by stadium like seating forming a recessed pit where two fighters fought each other one on one. I believe this was supposed to suggest Roman gladiatorial combat. My understanding is that Dad proposed the recessed pit. However, cameras would have a difficult time capturing the fighting if it moved against the walls of the pit. Consequently, the recessed idea of the pit was rejected and in its place it was elevated with chain link sides of the octagon replacing the concrete/stone sides of the Conan pit. At another point he suggested having the cage actually lower from the ceiling after the fighters walked into the fighting arena.
BH: What were some of the other ideas you had for bringing mixed martial arts to the masses? Is the shark and alligator moat concept true?
JM: Yes, alligators, sharks. Maybe even a grizzly bear…….Lions.
BH: Have you any desire to be involved in the UFC today? Have the Fertittas or Dana White ever approached you for your imput?
EM: No, not that I’m aware.
JM: He did say that I could come to any fight. And go to the parties. Ha ha.
BH: Are you a fan of the UFC and Mixed Martial Arts? If so, who are your favorite scrappers and why?
EM: I don’t think that he continued watching them after Royce stopped competing.
BH: Is it true you introduced Ed O’Neil to BJJ? If so, how did that transpire?
EM: Yes, Dad mentioned the Gracies to everyone – actors, producers, valet attendants, cashiers – literally anyone that he talked to. He encouraged everyone to down to their gym for an introductory lesson. Few people ever did. After the UFC, people actually showed interest and attended introductory lessons. Ed O’Neil was one of them. Ed began taking private lessons with Rorion Gracie.
JM: Yes. Ed is a very good friend of mine.
BH: Are you still friendly with Rorion and the Gracie clan?
EM: Yes. Rorion came to the screening of the Milius documentary at USC last year.
BH: Who was your favorite actor to direct?
JM: Nick Nolte in “Farewell to the King.” Willem Dafoe in “Flight of the Intruder.”
BH: Which of your iconic lines is your favorite?
JM: “Charlie don’t surf.”
BH: What do you think of the current state of politics in the US?
JM: We need a coup.
BH: If you could make only one movie what would it be?
JM: “Genghis Khan.”
BH: What is your favorite weapon?
JM: An over and under shotgun, or a 1911, or a .375 Holland and Holland rifle.
BH: What was your greatest triumph?
JM: My work itself. As Faulkner said when he got his Nobel prize in 1950, “I believe that man will not merely endure he will prevail.” When it comes to my work I did not merely endure, I prevailed.
